Sorry about the late reply, I'm on a break from the Xeno fandom (as you can probably tell). I have not reposted the story analysis since I wanted to revise them a bit before doing so. And since my interest does not lie with Xeno at the moment (and the fandom is kind of dead) I've lacked the passion to revisit a lot of my articles. I also don't have the same amount of free time as I used to have. But if/when I get some of the passion back I'd like to restore those. I don't have Twitter.
Hi! Fantastic Xeno resource you have here. I might be able to contribute to the Translation Errors section - what's the best way to do this? As much as this game holds a big place in our hearts it obviously can't stay on our minds 24/7 forever, but I hope before it fades completely into obscurity a patch could be created to fully correct and refine the English version... leave behind the best version possible for future gamers.
@Student 41269 I think that you should consider this translation errors guide as a contributor to whatever project you want to do (like a patch) rather than the other way around because I don't think the way this guide is presented is optimal and I'm not really interested in adding anything unless it is a major error worth mentioning.
Something like this might be better: https://web.archive.org/web/20151107071820/http://xeno-underground.net/wiki/index.php?title=XG_Translation Other than starting your own project like that (or even just copying my translation guide and continue it on a blog of your own) I can not think of much except to create a forum for this study guide where you can post translations in a thread made for such. However, even then, I'm not really eager to update this page. Basically this blog is more like a "museum" more than a living project and potential new content is merely restored content from the original site with some revisions.
Hey, seeing as this is the page for translation errors, I am pretty sure this would fit in here handily. One of the things that really caught my attention was the way you used the Afterword for Xenogears: Perfect Works, something the fandom largely ignores for some reason.
However, I've lately been checking UltimateGraphics' translation of it and holy shit, it is really bad. Like, lots of parts lost nuance, also others have their meaning totally altered.
Dunno if I might have been able to do a better job with it, I was pretty shaky at some points of it, but I believe I have improved upon what was there. If you want me to provide this alternative translation, I'd be happy to oblige.
Good job on keeping alive passion for these games though!
I am aware of the problems with UltimateGraphics' translation. That's why I had Gwendal do a new translation that I added to the "History of Xenogears" article. I will do a comparison between his and your translation that you sent me and get back to you by E-mail.
I've been revisiting Xenogears lately and I grew curious regarding some scenes that seemed to give people trouble while translating. Particularly, I focused on two of them: the scene in which Emperor Cain talks about "The Time of the Gospel", which I found pretty important and overlooked, and the scene in which Karellen talks about the "true Myyah". I checked the translation errors guide and found some of the stuff lacking for various reasons.
First of all, I was surprised that the Emperor scene gave some people trouble, and I think I know why. Do you know if they were asked to re-translate it out of context? I've managed to find the JP script for Xenogears and I think I could possibly fix the problem with the scene, or at least shed some light into it. Keep in mind I'm nowhere near the level of a pro:
I have no complaints to issue to the retranslation up to "if it doesn't come true". Then we have this line by Cain:
「我等は原初からの運命＜さだめ＞により...
What got me, specially through the use of により followed by suspensive points, was that this was an incomplete sentence, that Cain said something following this but it was cut. "In accordance/through the fate from our Genesis, we...", feels something like this. Then I read the script a little more and I found out that Shitan actually completes the sentence just afterwards:
(滅亡しよう、ですか……陛下……)
This line here was probably overlooked because Richard Honeywood translated it as a really vague "is this really the end, your Majesty?". However, the sentence implies a very particular kind of end, namely, literal annihilation. Shitan here, speaking to himself, is questioning the Emperors words about whether they'll be destroyed. And Shitan's sentence is not reduced to the Gazel and Cain, for it seems to include himself and others too. While the flashback cut, Shitan informs here of what Cain said afterwards, which was "...will be obliterated".
Then I looked up the original line Karellen uses to talk about the "True Myyah" and well, it's not really an issue with translation, but rather with context. The translation guide implies Karellen is talking about Elly-Myyah regarding her "incomplete awakening". Context I think however implies he's just talking about the Myyah that just died though, because Shitan asks him why this didn't happen earlier, if Myyah was a part of Deus. Karellen simply answered "That's because her awakening is incomplete". He specifically ends the sentence with のだ, a sentence ends that indicates he's explaining something he's been asked about. He is not ignoring Shitan's question. There's some translations in there that kinda twist the context by introducing a "still" that's not present anywhere in the Japanese text.
This was all, I hope you find the info worthwhile. Love this site.
Thank you, that actually makes more sense. I updated the translation guide by adding those extra lines for context and also quoting you. Now I'll have to remember this next time I talk about "True Miang" since I constructed a theory around that which I will now probably just scrap.
I worded the bits about the translation really badly, sorry ^^. "will be annihilated" is not a direct translation of what Shitan said after that, it's just what I infer (from his words) Cain said before the flashback to their conversation about the Time of the Gospel cut. What Shitan says is more like "Will we really face annihilation? Your Majesty...". If you notice, it's somewhat similar to how it was originally translated, however, Honeywood chose to translate 滅亡しよう as "the end", which sounds fairly generic. Would have been right if it'd been 終わり or something related, but 滅亡 implies death, destruction, or annihilation, not some generic "the end". Given the vagueness of the translation, it's natural that anyone reading it would think it could literally refer to anything, and not link it to the "fate" Cain originally wanted to avoid through the resurrection of God.
If I know where you were going with the theory, when Karellen speaks of "the awakening of the true Mother", that's an accurate line, so that's something. I'd be interested in seen some updated Story Analysis pages, I think you were the best person around to "reconstruct" what Xenogears Episode I, as well as the 2nd Xenosaga story arc, might have been about. I'm happy to see you still check this site from time to time, given these days are pretty much devoid of anything new for fans of Xenogears and Xenosaga.
It's not like he completes it literally, it's just that we get a hint of what Cain might have said after the cut by having Shitan speak of them facing their demise. It would just come out of left field to have him think that after reflecting on the flashback if the conversation didn't have anything to do with it.
It's still being updated, but so far it has retranslated half the script (up to the Shevat arc) and changed all mistranslated/misromanized terms throughout the entire script.
Hello! I was wondering, did you repost the xeno-games story analys?
ReplyDeleteAlso, it's good to see the xeno-love stil alive. Do you have a twitter? I'd love to read more xeno stuff by you.
Sorry about the late reply, I'm on a break from the Xeno fandom (as you can probably tell). I have not reposted the story analysis since I wanted to revise them a bit before doing so. And since my interest does not lie with Xeno at the moment (and the fandom is kind of dead) I've lacked the passion to revisit a lot of my articles. I also don't have the same amount of free time as I used to have. But if/when I get some of the passion back I'd like to restore those. I don't have Twitter.
ReplyDeleteAh, I see. It's a shame, but I hope your passion for Xeno isn't dead, it would be a shame to lose one of the few "big" Xeno fans left.
ReplyDeleteThis is good stuff here hope that one day you gain some interest and continue towards the other xeno games. Are you not interested in xenoblade 2?
ReplyDeleteHi! Fantastic Xeno resource you have here. I might be able to contribute to the Translation Errors section - what's the best way to do this? As much as this game holds a big place in our hearts it obviously can't stay on our minds 24/7 forever, but I hope before it fades completely into obscurity a patch could be created to fully correct and refine the English version... leave behind the best version possible for future gamers.
ReplyDelete@Student 41269
ReplyDeleteI think that you should consider this translation errors guide as a contributor to whatever project you want to do (like a patch) rather than the other way around because I don't think the way this guide is presented is optimal and I'm not really interested in adding anything unless it is a major error worth mentioning.
Something like this might be better: https://web.archive.org/web/20151107071820/http://xeno-underground.net/wiki/index.php?title=XG_Translation
Other than starting your own project like that (or even just copying my translation guide and continue it on a blog of your own) I can not think of much except to create a forum for this study guide where you can post translations in a thread made for such. However, even then, I'm not really eager to update this page. Basically this blog is more like a "museum" more than a living project and potential new content is merely restored content from the original site with some revisions.
Hey, seeing as this is the page for translation errors, I am pretty sure this would fit in here handily. One of the things that really caught my attention was the way you used the Afterword for Xenogears: Perfect Works, something the fandom largely ignores for some reason.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I've lately been checking UltimateGraphics' translation of it and holy shit, it is really bad. Like, lots of parts lost nuance, also others have their meaning totally altered.
Dunno if I might have been able to do a better job with it, I was pretty shaky at some points of it, but I believe I have improved upon what was there. If you want me to provide this alternative translation, I'd be happy to oblige.
Good job on keeping alive passion for these games though!
I am aware of the problems with UltimateGraphics' translation. That's why I had Gwendal do a new translation that I added to the "History of Xenogears" article. I will do a comparison between his and your translation that you sent me and get back to you by E-mail.
DeleteI've been revisiting Xenogears lately and I grew curious regarding some scenes that seemed to give people trouble while translating. Particularly, I focused on two of them: the scene in which Emperor Cain talks about "The Time of the Gospel", which I found pretty important and overlooked, and the scene in which Karellen talks about the "true Myyah". I checked the translation errors guide and found some of the stuff lacking for various reasons.
ReplyDeleteFirst of all, I was surprised that the Emperor scene gave some people trouble, and I think I know why. Do you know if they were asked to re-translate it out of context? I've managed to find the JP script for Xenogears and I think I could possibly fix the problem with the scene, or at least shed some light into it. Keep in mind I'm nowhere near the level of a pro:
I have no complaints to issue to the retranslation up to "if it doesn't come true". Then we have this line by Cain:
「我等は原初からの運命＜さだめ＞により...
What got me, specially through the use of により followed by suspensive points, was that this was an incomplete sentence, that Cain said something following this but it was cut. "In accordance/through the fate from our Genesis, we...", feels something like this. Then I read the script a little more and I found out that Shitan actually completes the sentence just afterwards:
(滅亡しよう、ですか……陛下……)
This line here was probably overlooked because Richard Honeywood translated it as a really vague "is this really the end, your Majesty?". However, the sentence implies a very particular kind of end, namely, literal annihilation. Shitan here, speaking to himself, is questioning the Emperors words about whether they'll be destroyed. And Shitan's sentence is not reduced to the Gazel and Cain, for it seems to include himself and others too. While the flashback cut, Shitan informs here of what Cain said afterwards, which was "...will be obliterated".
Then I looked up the original line Karellen uses to talk about the "True Myyah" and well, it's not really an issue with translation, but rather with context. The translation guide implies Karellen is talking about Elly-Myyah regarding her "incomplete awakening". Context I think however implies he's just talking about the Myyah that just died though, because Shitan asks him why this didn't happen earlier, if Myyah was a part of Deus. Karellen simply answered "That's because her awakening is incomplete". He specifically ends the sentence with のだ, a sentence ends that indicates he's explaining something he's been asked about. He is not ignoring Shitan's question. There's some translations in there that kinda twist the context by introducing a "still" that's not present anywhere in the Japanese text.
This was all, I hope you find the info worthwhile. Love this site.
Thank you, that actually makes more sense. I updated the translation guide by adding those extra lines for context and also quoting you. Now I'll have to remember this next time I talk about "True Miang" since I constructed a theory around that which I will now probably just scrap.
DeleteI worded the bits about the translation really badly, sorry ^^. "will be annihilated" is not a direct translation of what Shitan said after that, it's just what I infer (from his words) Cain said before the flashback to their conversation about the Time of the Gospel cut. What Shitan says is more like "Will we really face annihilation? Your Majesty...". If you notice, it's somewhat similar to how it was originally translated, however, Honeywood chose to translate 滅亡しよう as "the end", which sounds fairly generic. Would have been right if it'd been 終わり or something related, but 滅亡 implies death, destruction, or annihilation, not some generic "the end". Given the vagueness of the translation, it's natural that anyone reading it would think it could literally refer to anything, and not link it to the "fate" Cain originally wanted to avoid through the resurrection of God.
DeleteIf I know where you were going with the theory, when Karellen speaks of "the awakening of the true Mother", that's an accurate line, so that's something. I'd be interested in seen some updated Story Analysis pages, I think you were the best person around to "reconstruct" what Xenogears Episode I, as well as the 2nd Xenosaga story arc, might have been about. I'm happy to see you still check this site from time to time, given these days are pretty much devoid of anything new for fans of Xenogears and Xenosaga.
I fixed it, but now Shitan doesn't really "complete" Cain's last sentence like you implied. Though maybe that better comes across in Japanese?
DeleteIt's not like he completes it literally, it's just that we get a hint of what Cain might have said after the cut by having Shitan speak of them facing their demise. It would just come out of left field to have him think that after reflecting on the flashback if the conversation didn't have anything to do with it.
DeleteHello, do you know perhaps of this project:
ReplyDeletehttps://github.com/NoharOSP/Perfect_Works_Build
It's still being updated, but so far it has retranslated half the script (up to the Shevat arc) and changed all mistranslated/misromanized terms throughout the entire script.
I did not know about it.
Delete