tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post2048566114101429499..comments2024-02-08T06:55:19.288-08:00Comments on Xenogears and Xenosaga Study Guide: A new interview with Tetsuya Takahashi has been addedStudy Guidehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00568990661406872521noreply@blogger.comBlogger60125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-42339348024926119172022-03-24T14:27:08.632-07:002022-03-24T14:27:08.632-07:00Ontos is a bit more tricky to explain but he does ...Ontos is a bit more tricky to explain but he does share similarities to Wilhelm in Xenoblade 1. Yes Xenoblade 1, because while “Ontos” was introduced, or rather first mentioned in Xenoblade 2, he is a character in Xenoblade 1; Alvis, the monado.<br /><br />The relationship between Xenoblade 1 and 2 is that both narratives take place at the same time in different dimensions and share the same backstory (which was greatly expanded in Xenoblade 2).<br />This shared backstory is very similar to what happened with Grimoire Verum and Lost Jerusalem/Earth in Xenosaga. Without going in depth about the details and circumstances, Klaus, a scientist of the research institute that recovered the Conduit, activated the Conduit through the Trinity Processor, which caused almost all life on Earth to vanish and left the planet’s surface in ruins. All that remained on earth was half of Klaus, along with the Logos and Pneuma cores, which led to the events of XB2, while Klaus’ other half along with the Ontos core disappeared into a new dimension where the events of XB1 take place (XB2 uses this relationship with the first game to reinforce its themes of duality, all the while retroactively fleshing out characters and events in Xenoblade 1).<br /><br />Anyways, Ontos, or Alvis, in Xenoblade 1, is an entity that oversees everything regarding the state of the world, from the shadows, pretending to be someone he’s not throughout the ages, similarly to Wilhelm. He acts as the world’s guardian, the one that makes sure that everything falls into place, monitoring the return to the beginning. The key difference between them is that Wilhelm wanted to continue the eternal recurrence, because he did not believe in humanity’s will, while Alvis wanted to go against the eternal cycle of his world, to let the world evolve to its next stage, and he tested the will of the protagonists to challenge their own fate.<br />Somexenofannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-24419294936533762772022-03-24T14:25:03.978-07:002022-03-24T14:25:03.978-07:00The point and context for my original comment was ...<em>The point and context for my original comment was that Animus is a concept related to one of three "god-like beings" in Xenosaga that isn't found (to my knowledge) in Xenoblade.</em><br /><br />It is found in Xenoblade (Xenoblade 2 more specifically), as part of the “Trinity Processor”. This trinity of three cores is directly tied to the conduit (the Zohar counterpart in Xenoblade, it is even referred to in the internal code of the game as “Zohar”, and shares the same backstory of being found in a lake in Africa by a research institution etc). They are essentially artificial intelligence that were created by the research institute to manage and control the Conduit (they were raised in a virtual reality, to give them a personality and a will that would allow them to resonate with the Conduit). <br /><br />These three cores are referred to as Ontos, Logos, and Pneuma.<br /><br />Logos is the one who fills the role of the Animus, the male aspect of humanity (one of his boss themes is even titled “over Despair and Animus”). Pneuma fills the role of the Anima, the female aspect of humanity. One difference from Xenosaga is how the genders are switched, with Logos, the Animus, being male while Pneuma, the Anima, is female. Despite this difference, the similarities with chaos/Yeshua and Mary are there. I probably do not need to explain what connects “Logos” to Yeshua, and Mary and Pneuma both act as the divine spark/Sophia figure, on top of both being divided into two other characters; KOS-MOS/T-elos and Pyra/Mythra.<br /><br />Together, Logos and Pneuma (more commonly known as Malos and Pyra/Mythra during the events of Xenoblade 2) embody a form of the collective unconscious. Explaining just exactly why would take a really long time, so long story short, the two of them collect and contain the data and memories of all conscious life, which sustains the blade system and overall life cycle of the world of Xenoblade 2. <br /><br />(As a little aside, the role of the trinity processor of linking up to the conduit is very similar to Cecily and Cathe’s in Xenosaga, with their virtual reality sharing identical imagery of the two “sisters” (Cecily and Cathe and Pyra and Mythra) in a fake world made up of a lone tree amidst a green field. And similarly to Gears, the Logos and Pneuma cores wield mechs called Artifices, who, quoting the Xenoblade wiki, “are not man-made but were instead created by the Trinity Processor itself as a means to defend the First Low Orbit Station and the Conduit. The Artifices do not have any internal engines and instead run on "Slave Generators" to channel energy from the Conduit”).Somexenofannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-36383666767720691122022-03-24T10:58:09.387-07:002022-03-24T10:58:09.387-07:00I could see that happening, though with extremely ...I could see that happening, though with extremely different execution, given I believe the gynoid KOS-MOS was a Xenosaga original addition, even though I believe it is one of the many things the concept of System Deus from Xenogears got diluted into. I think you used to pose that the recovery of Persona (element of unknown origin according to PW) and Mary's body in Xenosaga sync pretty well, and the chances that it's not a coincidence is high IMO. <br /><br />That said, the conceptual connections are IMO clearer when you see the change from metaphorical to literal approach. If Mary's the reason for the fall of man in Xenosaga, then she's likely the mother of mankind as well, connected to the "Ye shall be as Gods" sentence, in the same way Deus causes a metaphorical fall of man in Xenogears which, given the next episodes in Xenosaga would have taken place in Lost Jerusalem and not in some random planet, would be replaced with the original, literal Genesis in a future game most likely. If Animus is the original Mother, the cause of the fall of man, then it all makes sense even without the strong connections in between Myyah and the Animus element specifically. Nephilim, who is Animus Gen 2, is set to be the mother of the reincarnated Gnosis, and Animus Gen 1 (Mary) being the original Mother existence makes perfect sense in context. <br /><br />These connections are hard to see when just taking Xenogears into account and not the context of the times, which is why IMO fans of both series find it hard to find conceptual connections beyond vaguely similar settings and things that are named the same but are, supposedly, conceptually different, leading to their downplay as mere references, easter eggs or fanservice at worst.trexalfanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-23155775425130134032022-03-24T06:09:55.557-07:002022-03-24T06:09:55.557-07:00> trexalfa
The connection isn't seen in Xen...> trexalfa<br />The connection isn't seen in Xenogears the game or PW, but I assume a connection would have been made if Xenogears Episode I was made. And even if it wouldn't Xenosaga would have re-imagined it that way most surely. The point and context for my original comment was that Animus is a concept related to one of three "god-like beings" in Xenosaga that isn't found (to my knowledge) in Xenoblade. And since Animus is an organic element that allowed the Gazel to have longevity in a way similar to chaos and Mary's bodies in XS it makes sense that in Xenogears Episode I the origin of Animus would have been explained as something similar. But since it wasn't confirmed I had to keep it vague until Lugalbanda forced me to be spefific by quoting that particular sentence. Here's the full quote:<br /><br /><i>XG and XS both contain 3 main parts or story arcs. First part takes place 4000 years after mankind left earth and has a theme of human fear and Christian undertones. Sets up the reason for the collapse of the universe. There are three god-like beings and one attempts to prevent the collapse (Wilhelm).<br /><br />The second part takes place 10,000 years later and deals with the extended measure being taken to prevent the universe from collapsing. It deals with a separate theme (you could call it "grief"). The second god-being (female one, related to animus) deals with this.<br /><br />The third part supposedly deals with the demise of the universe. Will have a third theme and likely the third god-being is central in this (Anima: chaos/Cain).</i>Study Guidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568990661406872521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-12822719240493902862022-03-23T14:44:57.929-07:002022-03-23T14:44:57.929-07:00Miang/Persona (XG) and Mary (XS). The connection b...<i>Miang/Persona (XG) and Mary (XS). The connection between those two is hard to see in the actual games though.</i><br /><br />I can see the connection at some level, mainly in between some analogies hinted at in Xenosaga which probably were meant to be fleshed out later. The Animus connection in Xenogears itself is something I don't really see though, given Persona is a distinct element, and both Anima and Animus are loaded within.<br />trexalfanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-82486784963222701822018-07-30T13:47:30.568-07:002018-07-30T13:47:30.568-07:00I see, thanks for looking into it.
I didn't ...I see, thanks for looking into it. <br /><br />I didn't know about a new Xeno Emission. If anyone finds something particularly interesting in it then that part might be worth preserving on the study guide. But I won't be keeping an eye on it.<br /><br />The <i>Xenosaga -Official Design Materials-</i> book was completely translated back on XenoTensei if I remember correctly. Gwendal finished up the work after the study guide came around. It was a very interesting book and we used to have tons of discussions about it. I still have the translated pages saved, but I would have to re-read it to see if I would think the same now. It might be that I already cited the most interesting stuff in my articles.Study Guidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568990661406872521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-90381497246284672682018-07-30T10:42:18.450-07:002018-07-30T10:42:18.450-07:00
Acquaintance tells me its likely to be an issue b...<br />Acquaintance tells me its likely to be an issue between February and March of 1998 in Dengeki Playstation, and that the magazine punblished every other week. You’re likely going to have to search public libraries in Japan to get more precise than this. 2ch is always an option, but I’m not going to use money just to get semi reliable information, so this is all the information I can get as of right now.<br /><br /><br />On a completely unrelated note, I want to give you a heads up if you didn’t already know that there’s a new Xeno Emission coming out. I know most of the stuff in those books don’t have much of importance regarding this guide, but thought I’d let you know anyway.<br /><br />On a somewhat similar note, is an ep1 official design materials book something that’s needed? It looks to me like the only place to have it has now been taken off the web. Wondering how much of that book was actually looked at by you and others.Lugalbandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15296076702786168222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-55443424468288584652018-07-23T10:37:54.524-07:002018-07-23T10:37:54.524-07:00I looked all over the Japanese net, but I’ve found...I looked all over the Japanese net, but I’ve found absolutely nothing. I could ask the person who gave it to me, but he apparently just picked up the scans from the internet long ago, so I probably won’t get anything from him. There is a chance I could still figure it out from an acquaintance of his, but we’ll have to see. Asking on the XG thread of 2ch would be another way, but I’d have to pay money to even post there and I’m not sure the info I get would exactly meet the threshold for teliable information in a thesis anyway. Then again, I guess I could say the same about myself. I’ll reply back if I get anything.Lugalbandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15296076702786168222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-4720373331680607892018-07-22T03:45:32.820-07:002018-07-22T03:45:32.820-07:00Hey Lugal, do you know what issue and what magazin...Hey Lugal, do you know what issue and what magazine that 3-page 1998 interview with Xenogears staff is from? Someone that commented on the interview needs to know for a university thesis.Study Guidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568990661406872521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-45567084195357024522018-07-10T09:25:22.605-07:002018-07-10T09:25:22.605-07:00That's what I've been saying about the old...<em>That's what I've been saying about the old vision, which reached its culmination around the point of XS Ep.1. They were attempting to do something in the gaming world not done before and more in the vein of great literature and cinema. I mean they even attempted an orchestral score.</em><br /><br />Well, that kind of gets at something that I've been holding off talking about because I might post it separately in the merits section where it goes into more detail. And it's that video games <em>aren't</em> cinema or literature. And I think that Takahashi trying too hard to be like it was really one of the major problems with saga. Which is why I wondered who's idea it was. Because this is the kind of thing that is symbolic of the fundamental problem of XS, and it just amplified the "failure" of XS even more, even though I think it was an honest effort. And I think that leads to the whole "fake sci-fi" quote.<br /><br />But I'm not saying that video games are merely a time-burning machine or just for entertainment. Because books and movies have/had that aspect too. Because I think that what Takahashi wanted to do <em> was</em> possible through the medium of a video game, and I think that him trying too hard to be like something it wasn't was what really lead to a loss of focus and direction in both plot and gameplay. Because video games have made great strides when it comes to this in recent years. I think that simply giving up immediately, saying that "video games are just not a medium for the story I want to tell" and agreeing to that sentiment is just a cop-out. It's a grass-is-greener-on-the-other-side-of-the-fence argument that doesn't actually say anything but sulk about failure. Lugalbandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15296076702786168222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-64027802015172665562018-07-10T09:23:22.321-07:002018-07-10T09:23:22.321-07:00Before this discussion had begun, I decided to rep...Before this discussion had begun, I decided to replay X. As I've said, X started it all for me, and I had gone into the game with no knowledge of any other game whatsoever. And I wondered, now, what exactly it was that made me curious about the other games, and care about the game(s) in the way that I do. Because I completely agree with you when you describe in your article about how underwhelming other games/movies/whatever are in comparison. Everything else that I've encountered might give me a fleeting moment of emotion, sure, through music, camerawork, and what have you. But it doesn't really last; I don't really feel anything, looking back on what I've absorbed. The first anything that I felt left a lasting impression on me was X. And replaying the game (although I'm not done yet), despite how minimalistic and inconclusive the plot is, it was undeniably clear to me why this had stuck with me. The way in which the story is told, and how the themes are conveyed, who says what... <em>that</em> was what had grabbed my heart.<br /><br />So the similarities you list, what you would call superficial similarities in your merits article, I don't strictly care about those either. Especially because things like Yuriev are hardly emblematic of what Xeno is for me; Not only does it really not matter whether he's in the plot or not, he is such a stock JRPG villain that even Xenoblade 1 would laugh at him (of course, with saga, there's always questions about whether this was intended in the original plot or not). Margulis would be someone that I consider to be more Xeno-like, not because he's vaguely reminiscent of Ramsus or whomever in any other Xeno game, but because his purpose in the plot (A man who realizes his faith had been a sham this whole time) is something powerful, something that is worthy of attention. I don't even have to play FF7 or CT to know that that "xeno magic" is not there, because there is utterly no indication of that aside from superficial similarities. However, I do plan on playing them, now that you've brought it up, because I think it's a worthwhile endeavor to further strengthen my view on it. And if you think that all of that is distasteful, bad, whatever, then I think that's fair enough. Because you were promised something that you've still yet to receive. <br /><br />However, you bring up Soma Bringer. This one is an interesting one because it's by Takahashi and I think Soraya Saga also had some involvement, with some expected similarities, particularly between it and XB, correct? While I have less knowledge about that game (and Baten Kaitos) than FF7 and CT, I don't think it would be the same. Although I won't say that I won't find "xeno magic" in Soma Bringer, because it's entirely possible that what I'm talking about is more about Takahashi than any game, this is where I think the Xeno prefix comes in. I talked earlier about the narrative shortcuts thing that is prevalent in XB2. While I think you could probably apply that to Soma Bringer, I think that taking on the Xeno prefix implies something stronger than what you could do with SB. And I think those superficial similarities contribute to that as well. And I think that the fact that the Zohar/Conduit, the one thing in XG and XS that was not just "somewhat familiar/similar", but nearly identical, appearing in 2, supports that understanding. To directly answer your question, I would have one section for Soma, Baten, FF7, and Chrono, because you can't really explain Xeno without having those games. If you were to remove all mention of FF7 from your study guide, it wouldn't even make sense. So in that way, I do think it's valid to have such a section. <br /><br />Lugalbandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15296076702786168222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-46581715436787007692018-07-10T09:10:42.389-07:002018-07-10T09:10:42.389-07:00Some more thoughts. If Takahasi made a great work ...Some more thoughts. If Takahasi made a great work that was more original but did not have 'Xeno' in the name, would you think it logical to have a separate community for that? If Takahashi made something else that made me a big fan, whether a different kind of Xenoblade or original work, I would still (if I made a fan site for it) make it a new blog.<br /><br />In fact, I have sometimes considered making two separate blogs/study guides for XG and XS, but because of their incomplete nature there's a compelling complementary relationship that together makes two out of three intended story arcs available for analysis. Articles like the mirroring article would also not be possible if they were kept separate. It's not that I like to mix them together, but in order to reach that deeper or broader original vision I decided to go that route.<br /><br />And yet I also know that there are fans, at least there have been fans in the past, who wanted to keep XG and XS very separate. Mostly XG fans who didn't like XS.Study Guidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568990661406872521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-79166888257549562712018-07-09T08:03:32.904-07:002018-07-09T08:03:32.904-07:00All I'm saying is that there seems to be more ...<i>All I'm saying is that there seems to be more to it than that because of how closely similar they are. You can't just say you can apply the same thinking to FF7 or CT, because it's just not true.</i><br /><br />Well then, if you'd create a website/community for all of Takahashi's MSI works, would you include Soma Bringer in that as well? Because that game has a lot of similarity with both saga/gears and Xenoblade. Or is it simply the name "Xeno" that matters?<br /><br />CT deals with a story spanning several eras like XG. It has a main character that is a banished royalty like Bart. Lucca was an inventor like Citan (and she's in XG Lahan Village). Its world is the result of an alien being arriving long ago, a kind of god (same with FF7). Zeal has a lot of similarities with Solaris/Shevat and so on. A lot of staff were the same.<br /><br />FF7 has a main character with identity issues. A part of the plot takes place in a prison. The story deals with scientists and modern corporations exploiting and using spiritual energy out of ignorance like XS. There was an ancient race that was more knowledgeable about stuff. Sephiroth and Yuriev both wants to become a god after researching the past. You fight modern looking corporate people in suits and so forth. I can't remember everything at the top of my head but these things have been discussed too just like similarities between blade and old Xeno are discussed today. And back then there were also references to older works like Roni and Rene from FFVI appearing in XG. Albedo has some echo of Kefka with the insanity and laugh.<br />It just seems to me that you might be relatively new to JRPGs, and that you might view the similarities differently with more experience.<br /><br /><i>One question though, what do you mean by major antagonist connected with Animus?</i><br /><br />Miang/Persona (XG) and Mary (XS). The connection between those two is hard to see in the actual games though.<br /><br /><i>If anything, I think what's most interesting is that they did this at all. This kind of on-stage interview is something in Japan that a director for a movie or a writer for a book would do, not for a game.</i><br /><br />That's what I've been saying about the old vision, which reached its culmination around the point of XS Ep.1. They were attempting to do something in the gaming world not done before and more in the vein of great literature and cinema. I mean they even attempted an orchestral score.<br /><br /><i>So the translation you currently have on your article is actually the opposite of what he's saying.</i><br /><br />Thanks, I suspected it might be, that's why I hoped you would tell me if it did. I'll remove that bit from the history article now.<br /><br />If you want to double check anything else then I already attempted to provide the links and scans for the interviews whenever possible for precisely that purpose. If there's anything missing that you want to take a look at then just tell me and I'll upload it.Study Guidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568990661406872521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-89900911946861731232018-07-08T20:43:05.577-07:002018-07-08T20:43:05.577-07:00I never said it was the same. You're saying th...I never said it was the same. You're saying that everything is meaningless references, where Takahashi is just recycling ideas because he has nothing better to make. All I'm saying is that there seems to be more to it than that because of how closely similar they are. You can't just say you can apply the same thinking to FF7 or CT, because it's just not true. I don't really want to keep on explaining things because what I think is just splitting hairs, you'll think otherwise, and I think you and I have both made our points, so I think I'll just leave it there. One question though, what do you mean by major antagonist connected with Animus?<br /><br /><br />Also, I looked at the two videos. The first one is just hard to make out anything. The substantive parts are mostly about the music, and I think most of the sentiments expressed in it have already been stated in other interviews. Again, I can't make out all of it, but that's what I'm getting. If anything, I think what's most interesting is that they did this at all. This kind of on-stage interview is something in Japan that a director for a movie or a writer for a book would do, not for a game. I wonder who's idea it was to do this.<br /><br />For the second video, there's not much to comment on, again. However, I noticed that this is the video about the whole "no Episode VI" deal in your history of XS article. And... the translation is just wrong. The question being asked is "What is the entirety of XS so far?" and Takahashi responds "At this point... around six things". Interviewer says "Six episodes?" and Takahashi nods and says " approximately Episode six (right now), I think." So the translation you currently have on your article is actually the opposite of what he's saying. Given that we've found such a fatal translation error, now I'm wondering if there's anything else like that. It might be a good idea to just go through a lot of the old stuff and see if I disagree with any of it. I just don't have any of the sources, so if you would be so kind as to lead them my way, I'll take a look at them.Lugalbandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15296076702786168222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-63369401445649339222018-07-08T09:49:32.779-07:002018-07-08T09:49:32.779-07:00Alvis was not the antagonist, like Wilhelm. Also, ...Alvis was not the antagonist, like Wilhelm. Also, wasn't Alvis just a computer program originally? And Zanza and Meyneth two scientists? I don't know who Pneuma is (XBX?) but if she's not part of the same continuum and a major antagonist connected with Animus it's not the same. And for XB2 this is where? What is the Christian stuff in XB2?Study Guidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568990661406872521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-59548423527094769052018-07-07T18:57:41.293-07:002018-07-07T18:57:41.293-07:00Haha, your description actually made me chuckle a ...Haha, your description actually made me chuckle a little. Not because it's bad or anything; quite the opposite. It's that it's so familiar to the blade games that it made me laugh. Three god-like beings (Zanza, Meyneth, Alvis), one (Alvis) who tries to prevent the demise of the(not ours) universe. Female being (Pneuma) comes in a second time to save it( this time, ours). They've even got the themes you mention, I'd say! Although the Christian stuff doesn't kick in until 2.<br /><br />I don't think that means XB1 and 2 are a "retelling" of the arcs or anything, though. Because Takahashi has said he wants to keep going with XB3 and XB4, and there's only one other arc that he could go off of left even if we were to believe it. But I think it's a little too much to just say it's nothing, either. It'll be interesting to see what he does next.<br /><br />It's fair if you think it's stale, but I don't think Takahashi ever intended to do it this way. He had to change publishers twice after all. If anything, I feel like it's an honest attempt at trying to convey something from start to finish. I think XB walks a fine line, in the same way that you think XS does.Lugalbandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15296076702786168222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-84089851141019199822018-07-07T18:14:41.387-07:002018-07-07T18:14:41.387-07:00The situation between XG and XS is different. I us...The situation between XG and XS is different. I used to have a section of the study guide that can explain this but I haven't restored that part yet. I'm not sure I can explain it briefly but I'll try.<br /><br />XG and XS both contain 3 main parts or story arcs. First part takes place 4000 years after mankind left earth and has a theme of human fear and Christian undertones. Sets up the reason for the collapse of the universe. There are three god-like beings and one attempts to prevent the collapse (Wilhelm).<br /><br />The second part takes place 10,000 years later and deals with the extended measure being taken to prevent the universe from collapsing. It deals with a separate theme (you could call it "grief"). The second god-being (female one, related to animus) deals with this.<br /><br />The third part supposedly deals with the demise of the universe. Will have a third theme and likely the third god-being is central in this (Anima: chaos/Cain).<br /><br />XB1, XB2 and XBX, in contrast, have none of this from what I can tell.<br /><br />Each story arc would, obviously, be comparable with each other in direction and style. Just like XB1 and XB2 are quite similar (boy fighting with a sword living on creatures etc). And I'm sure XBX2 will be similar to XBX. Basically there is a "formula" that makes a game part of Xenoblade, another formula that makes it part of XBX, and quite another formula that makes it part of saga/gears.<br /><br />I fully expect, and even want, a similar "formula" and style for each story arc in both XG and XS. Otherwise it wouldn't feel consistent. It is not enough that the story merely continues. Make each arc just as big and just as good, but obviously change things up enough that it doesn't feel repetitive or like merely a rehash. XS walked a fine line, but I did find his approach worked well and it makes sense that things will repeat in a story originally intended to be a prequel/sequel.<br /><br />But that he's now recycling some of his ideas even for XB, a different series with a different universe, is making the ideas feel stale and repetitive. With three stories as part of a series/universe with a similar style it made sense, but the blade games have been ruining the uniqueness of it.Study Guidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568990661406872521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-43414781616644547272018-07-07T10:22:08.810-07:002018-07-07T10:22:08.810-07:00So not really different from what I thought you we...So not really different from what I thought you were saying. I guess what I’ve been trying to get at is this then: given that some things are recycled, are you sure that the observations in your mirroring article you wrote are not also just Takahashi recycling things? Because while I understand that XS is supposed to be a refined take on the original plot/universe, I was not really convinced that Takahashi intended to mirror the progression of Xenogears with that article; at least not in a way that is different from XB. I saw it as a symptom for what Takahashi does every time he has to move publishers. Because why would he mirror the XS we got, which is related to XG EpI, to XG epV? What would have happened had everything gone according to plan? He would “mirror” again with the two other arcs, one of which is supposed to be a Xenogears “remake”? How is that not the same as recycling? Which is why I said XB follows that direction/style, because I consider your “mirroring” and “recycled elements” to be a distinction without a difference. You will probably say that there is a more convincing case to be made with XS because it doesn’t have the differences we agreed on between blade and the others. But that’s only saying that XS is more similar than XB to XG. It doesn’t say how similar XB is as it pertains to elements found specifically in Xeno, or really address why he would do it. It all seems like a way for you to rationalize being fine with one instance of something, and then be able to say the same thing makes something bad in another. Don’t get me wrong, I appreciate the article. Just not the ways in which you intend it to be.<br /><br />What I was trying to say with that interview was that in the future the difference in tone that you’ve described may no longer even be a point of difference; which likely means they will be even more similar than before. Why would he talk about something not Xeno in an interview for Xeno? I doubt he’s talking about the fantasy game. Although I won’t deny it.<br /><br />I just took a quick look, but the audio quality is absolutely horrible. I’ll use headphones later and see what I can do, but don’t get your hopes up.Lugalbandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15296076702786168222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-88955043897900938032018-07-07T06:21:06.205-07:002018-07-07T06:21:06.205-07:00Saying that XBX is "worthy" of the Xeno-...Saying that XBX is "worthy" of the Xeno- prefix is putting it too strongly, and I don't want people to misunderstand. But XBX has more similarities with the old Xenoverse in being more sci-fi, set in our universe proper, having robots to pilot, etc, that having it use the Xeno- prefix feels a bit more consistent and natural. This does not mean that I regard XBX, from what cutscenes I've seen and know of it, to be part of the same universe or vision as XG and XS.<br /><br />I watched the first 1.5 hour of XB2 and also the last hour or so because I wasn't getting into it. But I recognise many recycled elements from older Xeno towards the end, such as the heroine sacrifice, the final mech boss, the Proto-Merkabah-esque escape, two halves of a character merged into one (Pyra/Mythra), etc. It's like Takahashi wrote the last part of the game and left the rest of the plot/world/characters to the other writers. But still, it's a rehash with a lighter and less complex/dark/philosophical tone over all. And the build up or context from the start of the adventure makes it feel distinctly different.<br /><br />For that XB2 interview snippet you translated, I don't think he's talking about EpVI or his old Xeno in any way. They talk about doing something completely original besides the Xenoblade series. Of course, if they did that, the tone might be closer to the old Xeno without it being Xeno. And I would like to see something new and more mature that wasn't Xeno. But, as you know, I have my doubts anything will come of what he says he wants to do.<br /><br />By the way, I may have something more for you to translate. Gwendal had trouble with videos since he mostly knew written Japanese but not spoken Japanese. If you can translate spoken Japanese perhaps you can tell if anything new/interesting is being said in these videos:<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0m5-lmCfgOA<br />https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4Tllp_UNPgStudy Guidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568990661406872521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-51199288660452636682018-07-06T18:58:29.076-07:002018-07-06T18:58:29.076-07:00Hold on a second. Are you saying XBX and XB2 are w...Hold on a second. Are you saying XBX and XB2 are worthy of the Xeno prefix, despite what you've said? Because if that's the case, then we might've been arguing two different things. If you think that XB1 is weak for Xeno standards, then I'm fine with that. Because it is.<br /><br />If you're talking about XBX and 2 though, I need to correct some things: XBX has mechs that are pilotable, combat or otherwise. 2 has them in cutscenes. The reason why I said it was superficial was because I thought you were arguing for differences on a contextually superficial level, like Nopon vs Chu-Chu and Bunnie. And I've said this before, but the aliens in X are heavily implied to be either descendants of humans or human creations meant to serve humans. So I don't see how that takes away from the "center of the universe" idea. The English localization goes so far as to call them Xenos rather than aliens.<br /><br />I don't disagree with you on tone and fantasy elements at all. XB1 is more fantasy than XG, and I want less fantasy, too. Although I haven't played CT or FFVII, I don't think you can point out as many similarities between those games and XB1, though. Because the similarities, for example the characters and themes, are very specific.<br /><br />And one other thing, because you talking about tone reminded me. If you look on my site, there's a snippet from an XB2 interview I translated where Takahashi talks about what he wants to do next. In that, he signals that what he wants to do next is something more mature and sexual. To me, that signals an even stronger return to XG's style than XB2 and X already have done. That's another reason why I talk about the EpVI quote so much. And the new DLC that's coming out for 2 already seems to be going in that direction. What's your take on this?Lugalbandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15296076702786168222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-15054026854284097162018-07-06T03:47:30.968-07:002018-07-06T03:47:30.968-07:00I was mainly thinking of XBX and going off of what...I was mainly thinking of XBX and going off of what you said about XB2. I have never considered XB1 to be worthy of the 'Xeno' prefix. Besides, what makes this "style" and the robot enemies you're referring to less superficial than the aspects I bring up? Aren't those very things the "style" that sets to tone for the plot and the game? <br /><br />Xenogears and Xenosaga did not have aliens like XBX, which was related to the Christian undertones (i.e. Earth being the center of the universe and "holy"/special).<br /><br />I never liked the inclusion of Chu-Chu in XG and neither did many other fans. I always thought that was one of those compromises Takahashi felt he had to make to keep the rest of the team happy, putting in a bit of fantasy elements. Chu-Chu was written by Kato after all. Same with the demi-humans. I didn't like how they looked so much like anthropomorphic animals and I would prefer if they changed that in a remake. That's why I hoped XS would fix these things. I'm not completely satisfied with any of the Xeno games, for the record. There are many elements I don't care for in both XG and XS. But the blade games are hardly ameliorating these aspects, just making them worse for me.<br /><br />The point is, XG and XS had a darker and more mature tone, and they toned down the fantasy elements. And in an improved version or remake I'd prefer even less fantasy elements if possible. It is also possible to find similarities in anything. I could point out just as many similarities to XG/XS in FF7 and Chrono Trigger as in Xenoblade. <br /><br />And there are enough people who can clearly see that they are different. If you and some other people can't by now then I don't think anything will make you see it.Study Guidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568990661406872521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-12963020806718079062018-07-05T15:10:50.910-07:002018-07-05T15:10:50.910-07:00http://www.procyon-studio.com/blog/?p=12879
Recen...http://www.procyon-studio.com/blog/?p=12879<br /><br /><em>Recently, Xenogears has reached it's 20th year anniversary. It's quite rare to see a game this popular after so long. It seems that many people are eager for a remake, and I'm truly grateful that I could have been a part of this game. However, I think that a remake would be very difficult, personally. When it comes to [copy]rights, that's just a matter of money, (that is, if the development company is different [I'm not sure if this parenthesis is talking about what follows it or what came before it]) but the problem is the level of understanding towards the work. This of course includes the understanding towards the original work, but we also have to think about if we are understanding it from the user's perspective, and the differences in feel of the world that arise from the aging of the game and improved technology. And this can be said about the music as well. If we were to just remake it as a job, we would not get any positive results.</em>Lugalbandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15296076702786168222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-20276525958244979952018-07-05T15:01:10.024-07:002018-07-05T15:01:10.024-07:00How can you list such superficial aspects to say t...How can you list such superficial aspects to say that XB1 has nothing to do with XG and XS, though? I thought that we had agreed that what makes Xeno, Xeno had a lot to do with a plot driven story in a very specific style. Furthermore, 1 has robots, just not in combat. And earlier, you brought up the fact of a universe being devoid of alien life as something seen in Xeno. Is taking place on two giant corpses <em>not</em> a take on this? It's got a different battle system, in that it's not the complete same as XG or XS, yeah. Yet again, if you look closely, you will see that the battle system is a continuation of previous Xeno games, where a quick reaction is sometimes necessary, and you build regular punches/slashes into more special attacks.<br /><br />And for XB2, it's the same thing. Funny-looking feather-balls? So what does that mean for Chu-Chu or Bunnie? And talking tigers? what does that mean for demi-humans (because they're not an actual tiger)? It's not a fictional representation of our universe in the same way that Xenogears isn't. Because I would say Fei smashing things to death by freezing them with his own fists is just as made up as a world that was created on top of nano-machines with huge enough entities to host human life on top of them. And what would happen if you saw X, which is like XS in it's refusal to partake in any high-fantasy? I can't help but feel that you are actively looking for any differences you can find in a sea of similarities, and using that to claim that these games are not in the same vein as other Xeno games. <br /><br />Well, if you want to avoid drama, that is fair enough. But I think that, if you believe that the Xenoblade games are the antithesis to what Xeno actually is, then I think developing a better understanding of it will only serve to further cement your appreciation for why Xenogears is that much better as a game. <br /><br /><br />Lugalbandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15296076702786168222noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-65903017620977670622018-07-05T12:06:56.556-07:002018-07-05T12:06:56.556-07:00my point is that XB told the story in a way that c...<i>my point is that XB told the story in a way that can be more easily digestible and approachable all the while maintaining themes from XG, and actually having a focused final product.</i><br /><br />Alright, how can I put this... This is exactly what came up, over and over again after people played XB1. XB1 is *not* an easily digestable Xenogears that still maintains its themes. XB1 has nothing to do with XG or XS. It's got a completely different battle system. It's got no robots you can pilot. It takes place on two friggin' giant corpses in a made-up fantasy universe! That it later reveals that it came outta our universe is irrelevant.<br /><br />And it's the same with XB2. I'm 15 minutes or so into the cutscenes, and after watching a small kid talk with his dragon, been shopping with some funny-looking feather-balls, I'm looking at a TALKING TIGER. This is not sci-fi or a fictional representation of our universe. This is cute fantasy for a younger audience. I'm not in my early teens anymore. What am I supposed to see here? I think you've got some explaining to do.<br /><br /><i>Why would I hate you?</i><br /><br />Even if you don't, other Xenoblade fans reading it probably will. And I've been trying to avoid that kind of war and drama this time.<br /><br />For the Mitsuda thing, do you have the precise quote saved? It might be worth including in my next article that talks about the future of the series. Is he specifically saying that Monolith could buy the rights if they wanted to? Study Guidehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00568990661406872521noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8475056804473462385.post-64029644198248504002018-07-05T10:34:15.864-07:002018-07-05T10:34:15.864-07:00Yeah I'd like an elaboration on that. Sounds i...<em>Yeah I'd like an elaboration on that. Sounds interesting. You're right I forgot that they wouldn't be able to re-use the old titles that easily. But they could attempt a completely new name too that is neither gears, saga or blade.</em><br />The gist of it is that Mitsuda, on his blog, talked about how hard it would be to remake Xenogears. He specifically mentions that it isn't hard for them, if a different company (Monolith) were to develop it, to buy the series, find funding, etc. What he's saying is that it would require a special kind of effort to deliver anything remotely on par with peoples expectations. This is commentary on my part, but the void that exists in Xenogears has been filled by fans with something unsatisfiable. I think anything that these people put out will not live up to what the fans had hoped. And that's assuming that everything else goes right to begin with. And I think Mitsuda is touching on this, and I think the reason why Takahashi is unwilling to touch the games is precisely what Mitsuda has echoed. At least, not through the window of XG. This is why I bring up the EpVI quote.Lugalbandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15296076702786168222noreply@blogger.com